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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:25 am 
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Posts: 428
Just want to quote some replies earlier in this thread:
eco wrote:
I disagree - they are worth it now. First, they are hardwired so the full 20% attack and damage from other skills apply to them that doesn't apply to the core add-ons. Second, as passive skills they stack. A Port 3 is going to have 20% boost to stats PLUS a 20% boost from other skills. That's 40% boost. HCS should NOT increase stats on the Hardwired add-ons or it would be MEGA overpowering. Already with 40% boost it's kind of amazing.

Quote:
My only point was that the new Port skills contributed significantly to the damage and attack (strengths) of cyborgs. I still say that. If a cyborg goes and actually tries it I'm confident it will be agreed. No, I am not going out and gathering total point data because it is irrelevant for the discussion about the skills and how they contribute to playability.

Whether they are OPINIONS or not, I will say no more. But the actual test from other players:
Quote:
I did the test run for the 3 port skills last night and I am honestly disappointed in them. All 3 skills at level 100 amount to a whooping +6 damage and +8 attack.

Well, I would leave readers to decide your ability to apply skills to gears.

And I said again: I want cyborgs to have some decent skills, at least comparable to soldiers. I don't care if soldiers have the best dmg or not, I just want some newly introduced bonus (bonus from port skills) can actually be used by players. And apparently no one (even a purist :lol: ) is in favor of those port skills, except a soldier keeps telling everyone how "significant" the new bonus is :)

@maxgr: Since you quote the part of Elite/HK sets, do you think that HCS made the total point of each set equal to each other ACCIDENTALLY? Guess you learn something today :). Actually, I think you already saw the equality: "losing some... in exchange for ...". Yes, that is the equality between classes, welcome to the world of number :). However, currently, cyborg lost lots but gain so little :(

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@lvl200
+Purist: MS
+Cyborg: Augmentation, Interface (~310 points bonus)
+Soldier: Ordnance, Focused (~330 points bonus)
Do cyborgs, soldiers need more than 150HP over total 400 in evol points?
^_^
Issued raised and currently ignored since Mar 17


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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:16 am
Posts: 340
Location: Taiwan
Centurion wrote:
I think the borg skill tree is fairly decent. if I was a borg, I would go

aug, int, and overload with minimum on others to keep those. would not go with port type skill, but use hk/elite addons when they are available. (lvl 100, 160, 190)

overload is perfect counterbalance of lower dmg for hk/elite hunt. very easy elite and even HK is 1 hittable with buffs. definitely more suicide type class though compared to soldier or mutant, but very effective killing machine. just need more care in levelling.


Aug + Int + Port1 + Port2 + Port3 + MK1, with full set + Hardware add ons and weapon.
All max out to level 120, and you will have no points to select core skill.
(Overload depends on if you are going to solo bigger Elite/HK)
Put around 100 points into HP, rest all go to damage.
And you will become a killing machine.

You may ask why don't put into attack ?
Because I found Cyborg's sets are balanced enough.
No super high damage weapons, and no super high attacks.
The distribution between attack and damage is about 45:55. (maybe 40:60)
If you want to one hit bigger ones, you need to let damage get higher.
And the bonus for attack (Port + Aug) is enough to beat 95% creatures in this whole world.

As for trying bigger ones, like HK or level 190~200 Elites.
Suicide set is good for one hit, but if you wear "powerful core items", all bonus from class skills will gone. Yes, GONE !! And you will back to a normal Cyborg, not killing machine anymore.

I don't know if COWs are willing to create class single items for armor. (not add ons and weapon) -- [as type here, I think we should have class armor... we only can get add ons and weapon blueprints besides Elite sets' ]
If this is in their plan, Borgs will be good to see in the future.

But it is still weird that, WHY SOCKET MK1 STILL NEED TO CONNECT WITH NETWORK ??

I was a Cyborg over 140 levels... and I do the same thing like DK did before.
Cyborg is good, but need more care of items switching and stats care when hunting/leveling.
I'm lazy... and too much items need to carry.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:43 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 631
teekill wrote:
@maxgr: Since you quote the part of Elite/HK sets, do you think that HCS made the total point of each set equal to each other ACCIDENTALLY? Guess you learn something today :). Actually, I think you already saw the equality: "losing some... in exchange for ...". Yes, that is the equality between classes, welcome to the world of number :). However, currently, cyborg lost lots but gain so little :(


But see, if you get too focused in numbers you lose the general picture :) The trade-off is there and even if its not 1 for 1 the Cyborgs are now significantly less inferior to Soldier in respect to Damage achieved with a lelevling set, which -again- is acceptable in my eyes if Soldier is advertised as the easiest class to play.

The set stats may be equal or different, the total output of those will be affected anyway by class skills and distribution of evolution points, so the end result is different for each class and different for each player..A good example of what i am trying to say is the LE helm coming from Altus..If i have 80 points in defense and another 80 in armor i will value it quite differently than someone having all damage, even if he is a mutant too..The same applies to sets..if Borg sets lack damage, compensate with evo points that you now dont need in attack..you might have less to go around if you need so many for soldier-like damage, but hey, this is where borgs are harder to play than soldiers ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:16 am
Posts: 340
Location: Taiwan
MaximusGR wrote:
But see, if you get too focused in numbers you lose the general picture :) The trade-off is there and even if its not 1 for 1 the Cyborgs are now significantly less inferior to Soldier in respect to Damage achieved with a lelevling set, which -again- is acceptable in my eyes if Soldier is advertised as the easiest class to play.

The set stats may be equal or different, the total output of those will be affected anyway by class skills and distribution of evolution points, so the end result is different for each class and different for each player..A good example of what i am trying to say is the LE helm coming from Altus..If i have 80 points in defense and another 80 in armor i will value it quite differently than someone having all damage, even if he is a mutant too..The same applies to sets..if Borg sets lack damage, compensate with evo points that you now dont need in attack..you might have less to go around if you need so many for soldier-like damage, but hey, this is where borgs are harder to play than soldiers ;)


Agree !
You got the point, MaximusGR !!
Evo points setting should be different from class to class.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:00 am 
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Posts: 1226
Location: Elgin
teekill wrote:
So I really want to hear some answers from HCS on this update?


The Cyborg is not underpowered. The Soldier is not overpowered. That's the answer. They both work fine. Just need to look at the Port skills that don't seem to be working.

I play as a Cyborg. I use a balanced Evo points setup with half my total points in HP. Using Augmentation, Interface and Port 1, I am comfortably killing anything that raises its head. Even Gundo Raga dies in two hits. It takes them a lot of work to kill me. With the amount of Surge I generate over the killing time, I Patch myself. Patch plus Repair Kits = Zero Death. I only die if I forget to repair every so often. I am unstoppable.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 631
BigGrim wrote:
I play as a Cyborg. I use a balanced Evo points setup with half my total points in HP. Using Augmentation, Interface and Port 1, I am comfortably killing anything that raises its head. Even Gundo Raga dies in two hits. It takes them a lot of work to kill me. With the amount of Surge I generate over the killing time, I Patch myself. Patch plus Repair Kits = Zero Death. I only die if I forget to repair every so often. I am unstoppable.[/color]


I was that confident until around level 85 or so :lol: And then became confident again at level 100. Your unstoppability will be put to the test somewhere in between, be certain of that ;)

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(mutant player) : the mutants looks like something the cat dragged home


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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:42 am 
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MaximusGR wrote:
I was that confident until around level 85 or so :lol: And then became confident again at level 100. Your unstoppability will be put to the test somewhere in between, be certain of that ;)


Heh heh heh! So I've been told! I say "Bring it on!" :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:49 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:34 pm
Posts: 631
BigGrim wrote:
MaximusGR wrote:
I was that confident until around level 85 or so :lol: And then became confident again at level 100. Your unstoppability will be put to the test somewhere in between, be certain of that ;)


Heh heh heh! So I've been told! I say "Bring it on!" :mrgreen:


Be careful, it might turn to "Oh my!! What have i done? :o "

Those -too many- evo points in HP are invaluable for Elites and the odd high damage creature in each content but they WILL be missed quite a few times :) In which case i will joyfully tell you that "The game is not necessarily designed for 1-hitting" :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 11:58 am 
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MaximusGR wrote:
Those -too many- evo points in HP are invaluable for Elites and the odd high damage creature in each content but they WILL be missed quite a few times :) In which case i will joyfully tell you that "The game is not necessarily designed for 1-hitting" :lol:


Indeed. But that is exactly where those -too many- evo points will come into their own. And I confess, I tend to boost my items with Engineering and Augmentation.

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 Post subject: Re: Game Update v1.0626 ~ Cyborg Overhaul
PostPosted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 4:10 pm
Posts: 2365
teekill wrote:
Just want to quote some replies earlier in this thread:
eco wrote:
I disagree - they are worth it now. First, they are hardwired so the full 20% attack and damage from other skills apply to them that doesn't apply to the core add-ons. Second, as passive skills they stack. A Port 3 is going to have 20% boost to stats PLUS a 20% boost from other skills. That's 40% boost. HCS should NOT increase stats on the Hardwired add-ons or it would be MEGA overpowering. Already with 40% boost it's kind of amazing.

Quote:
My only point was that the new Port skills contributed significantly to the damage and attack (strengths) of cyborgs. I still say that. If a cyborg goes and actually tries it I'm confident it will be agreed. No, I am not going out and gathering total point data because it is irrelevant for the discussion about the skills and how they contribute to playability.

Whether they are OPINIONS or not, I will say no more. But the actual test from other players:
Quote:
I did the test run for the 3 port skills last night and I am honestly disappointed in them. All 3 skills at level 100 amount to a whooping +6 damage and +8 attack.

Well, I would leave readers to decide your ability to apply skills to gears.

And I said again: I want cyborgs to have some decent skills, at least comparable to soldiers. I don't care if soldiers have the best dmg or not, I just want some newly introduced bonus (bonus from port skills) can actually be used by players. And apparently no one (even a purist :lol: ) is in favor of those port skills, except a soldier keeps telling everyone how "significant" the new bonus is :)

@maxgr: Since you quote the part of Elite/HK sets, do you think that HCS made the total point of each set equal to each other ACCIDENTALLY? Guess you learn something today :). Actually, I think you already saw the equality: "losing some... in exchange for ...". Yes, that is the equality between classes, welcome to the world of number :). However, currently, cyborg lost lots but gain so little :(


See, BG went below. But - ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Did you read the part about where there is a bug in them working (where I said that)? Which accounts for the 6 and 8? Did you? Did you see that I said the important part is to fix this? Did that part get by you? So, to quote the 6 and 8 - which WAS NOT PUT IN THREAD TO COMPLAIN ABOUT WEAK SKILLS BUT TO POINT OUT A BUG - is just proof you don't get it. You don't even read your own press.

You're right you can leave it up to readers whether I can do math. THERE IS A BUG. BG IS LOOKING INTO IT. I SAID THEY NEED TO ADDRESS SAID BUG. I'm done with this part - until you use the best set for each class, properly applying skills I don't care about numbers. I don't care about total stat points - I know you do. You use bad math, apply skills incorrectly, quote the wrong stuff and then argue that I am the one that is wrong.

BG has answered for me. There are no problems with the skills as written. There is a problem with them being applied right now. Something isn't working right. And, teekill? Go back and look. There were several cyborgs that didn't say the skills weren't enough - just that they weren't working as written....


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