Sigmastorm 2 Forum

I have NEVER complained about my stats, especially damage. If you read my posts on other threads regarding future soldier skills or overhauls I caution against any more damage buffs being given to us. This post was your worst to date because you just try to attack people.

I am saying this once more, clearly - 1597 damage including KR as the only buff. I DO NOT get within 100 points of that with full class buffs (I reach about 1390 or so). By lowering my attack by 100 as you suggest I still would not get 'equality' with those purists playing max damage setups. I am lower down, in return for some useful other stats in my case. Also, I would point out that you want me to have an additional 90 HP in my points anyway, so my damage wouldn't go up.

As you then say in your post (and agree) that damage is the limiting factor and not attack, then I don't see why you use attack+damage as your measure. Sure, we might have 200 more attack if you set up like me but IT NEVER GETS USED in levelling. I use it for elites and HKs, plus artefact capture.

For ease of playing your higher damage gives you a slight edge when coupled with MS, except on a few high defence mobs. That's an easy price to pay for ignoring the attack and damage of the creatures everywhere else. What will happen? I imagine the purist might have to lose assassin for all of 1 level - the same as I would have real trouble 1 hit killing a creature with 1500 armour+defence unlike some purists currently. If I switch to all damage I lose my advantage in attack for the most part, so weyhey - TRADEOFFS in a class based game.

You now have failed to answer three of my points in this thread adequately:

-The cost effectiveness of your so called 150 HP model.
-How the class with the highest damage needs MORE of it.
-Why you claim purists need defence too and yet ignore it yourself.

If you can't actually answer the questions asked and just resort to throwing out statements then I'm done with this thread.

So you do really want the same attack and damage skills as soldiers or cyborgs while keeping MS? That isn't fair or equal is it?...unless MS is removed from the Purist tree and implemented as a core buff. As many people have said, "This isn't Sword, if you want the same stats and skills as everyone else that is where you should be."

@maxgr (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=135)
I guess you have nothing else to contribute except personal attacking?

It is so nice for you to say:
"You cant examine class buff separately from item stats or evo points..they are all designed to work together, so you have to look at the outcome i.e. how each class levels, kills Elites and handles durability loss, misses, ammo use etc.."
Then let's get back to where you go silent, ok? (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=75) and (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=78).

@cent
I know all classes can push down to 80% durability, but that doesn't say the equality of classes, it just say that all class lower limit are below 80% (and in my example, soldiers have much lower limit from the extra 150 points).
Not sure I can follow this line "also, purist as long as they have psi weapon can use core equipment with minimum penalty"? Assassin bonus?
The "thing purist lost is easy HK kill at lvl 190" --> and I am asking for attunement of 0.3% instead of 0.2% to get the equal foot with cyborg, what is wrong with that?

@eco:
I will ignore the Elite discussion part, as the discussion in the other thread is already quite lively, and I have express my opinion there as well.
"Cowpucky. It's about the game updates. The game updates include a change in MS against Elites". Where did you find your "cowpucky" :D of MS vs Elites update in this thread first post?????

@RJEM:
"damage drops too low before attack does in most cases" --> not complaining about dmg, then you must have meant you have too much atk?
"This post was your worst to date because you just try to attack people": I only return what I got from others, so please don't talk for others if you don't really know what is going on! Thanks.
"...Also, I would point out that you want me to have an additional 90 HP in my points anyway, so my damage wouldn't go up...." then you have no def and no armor in evol points, and your dmg goes up.
Anyways, my example is to show that with your current setup (that you can go down to 60% durability), then you move atk to dmg and you still can survive and go down lower, since (your words) "damage drops too low before attack does in most cases". And then your setup beats purists' no-atk optimal setup!
"Sure, we might have 200 more attack if you set up like me but IT NEVER GETS USED in levelling. I use it for elites and HKs, plus artefact capture." so soldiers have spare points for other games, but purists couldn't? FAIR?

Answer three of my points in this thread adequately:
-The cost effectiveness of your so called 150 HP model.
150 HP in evol is enough to "take 2 hits before needing healing"? And this is why I am suggesting 150 HP is working ROUGHLY the same as MS (at level 200).
Pros & con of HP vs MS: HP has packs/skill bar to refill, MS only has skill bar. MS surely seems better than HP . MS is associated with psi weapon now (inflexibility of weapon).
-How the class with the highest damage needs MORE of it:
READ MY SUGGESTION AGAIN
-Why you claim purists need defence too and yet ignore it yourself
Simple, I give up more psi power instead of def.

@Voodoo888
All I want is the BEST DMG setup of purist should be better than a so so setup of soldier (with spare points for other games like artifact), is that too much to ask?

=====
To all players going against my suggestion of some atk bonus in this thread, just answer this one question:
why most of the soldiers I've seen here, or in game, EOC or not, have atk in evol points, even when you have around 100++ atk bonus when fully buff? I think I have asked this question several times already. And why do you think you should have atk in evol points but not purist?

Teekill

1. You have been asking for more than just attack in this thread.
2. Your damage is higher than a soldier's class buffed damage even without buffs. You can hunt just as low on durability as a soldier.
3. This is a big one: I currently use armour and defence to avoid and then survive a hit - moving my points from there to HP would make no effective difference to my chance of surviving, but would make it more expensive to heal as I would take more damage each time I got hit. Not a sensible move for a soldier, mutant or cyborg.
4. If I lose my attack points to Damage then I would have roughly the same damage as a Purist, slightly more attack due to my class skills, but no Mental Strength. How is that not fair? I just showed that armour/defence points are the same as having massive HP, only cheaper, so that's all I could change.
5. There are a lot of Psi weapons in the game to use. I have to use Battlesuit weapons to get my class skill benefits, and I have to use ammo weapons (specifically rifles) for the same reason. Otherwise I lose all the additional attack and damage. That's quite limiting too in a way - not as much so as a purist, but it exists.
6. I have the attack points for the reasons I stated, and I sacrifice a bit of levelling efficiency to do that. A standard trade off to have a balanced character, and a Purist could do the same to be honest.

By the way - I really agree you should consider getting your old attunement skill back. It will be much better for the class in the long run than the stat bonuses you are asking for, because it would free you from needing to use a full set for elite/HK hunting. When levelling is easy (like now) you need another skill to be worth having.

Until the cows replace BG with you, I will put my comments about the game update in the thread BG started. In fact, if BG were following the example he always has set he would lock that other thread as duplicate to this one.

You may want to separate the issues, but that kind of comparative static analysis is what is leading you astray anyway....

Where i go "silent" are posts where i remind everyone that the stats of the class items can be comparable, skill bonuses determine where evo points should be placed for each class and the outcome for all 4 classes is overall balanced if players invest their evo points appropriately.

Think of your own evolution points..If you switch to Cyborg or Purist you ll have more damage than anyone in your class but you will not have the MS and die more often..So you would be forced to sacrifice damage and attack for hp, armor and defense..Class skills would compensate for that loss and bring your damage as a cyborg/soldier where your damage as a purist now is..

I cant be more clear than this:

Soldier/Cyborg stats+Evo+skill bonuses ROUGHLY EQUAL Purist stats+Evo points+ MS

when S/C can have armor/hp to survive 2 hits and initially defense to make some entities miss..

And there is still the advantage purists have against high att/dam mobs where they use the shield as usual, others have to us core gear or sustain deaths..dont you see that advantage?

Recapping..Purists are not underpowered in leveling as falsely presented..Purists are overpowered in Elite hunting and it needs to be addressed..Purists are underpowered against HK after the change of attunement skill.

Dependency on Psi weapons for Ms is something we can dismiss as reasonable, everyone else is dependant on class gear to attain skill bonuses..

1. Want a bet? Try to find any suggestion from me after this (viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&p=50487#p50487)?
2. With the average of 250 dmg in evolution points in soldiers and cyborg, and I would say the reverse.
3. Purists want the same: MS "and defence to avoid and then survive a hit". It is expensive to heal, but at least you can pay cr to heal, we cannot!
4. Actually, you will still have around 100 more atk and 50 more dmg than purists (of the total 150 more points as I have calculated before), that's why I ask for more atk. Fair since I already allot 150 / 400 ~ 40% of soldier evol point to your HP to equalize with our troublesome MS.
5. Any sensible levelers will keep Assassin bonus, so the helm/body/leg are out of question. Soldiers, cyborgs can lose a tiny bit of bonus from weapons to get the flexibility in weapon (and flexibility in atk stats). Purists lose ALL class buff if they change weapons (thanks to the last update) (I think I am repeating myself from earlier).
6. You "sacrifice a bit of levelling efficiency" and still able to get to 60% durability. Our best-setup (full dmg) purists also can only get to that (if they don't need atk while leveling). Again, fair? (and repeating myself again, I think).

@eco:
"I will put my comments about the game update in the thread BG started." Hopefully BG won't expect eco's MS discussion in the "Loyalty Rewards update"
The fact that other thread is alive and focus on its discussion shows that people don't want to mess everything together, even cows .

@maxgr:
"initially defense to make some entities miss..", cool, purists with our low HP need that more than anyone!!!
And yes, I never said to go full dmg on cyborgs/soldiers. That's why I have allocated 40% of your evolution points to your HP (or hp + armor + def?). And with the remaining of 60% points, you guys can still play the other game of artifact and going down to the same durability as our most efficient purists in dmg !!!! I can't see any "ROUGHLY EQUAL" here to tell the truth!

Until you switch classes and play with HP instead of MS I guess you will just never believe us that it's not the same. Most of us HAVE played with IMP so we know how it functions. Many purists have come in and debunked your arguments about the "troubles". No, NO, NOOOO. You don't get to allot my points in HP and THEY AREN'T THE SAME AS MS.




First, your assessment of Assassin is flat out wrong. You certainly can (and many do) wear core gear without sacrificing Assassin bonus. Second, purists are now tied to using Psi Weapon that is clear. But they can wear anything else and get no class skill penalty. I have seen a few setups that get great stats with no sacrifice of Assassin bonus and not using any Elite sets.



Actually yes it is fair. In order for other classes to get down to that durability they have to risk death to do it. Regularly. A purist does it without that risk. So, it is fair that there is a slight leveling penalty (in repair not leveling) for the safety of MS.



Asinine comment. I am discussing MS - with full agreement from everyone but you I'd like to point out - in a thread about the changes to the purist skill tree that included changes to MS. The fact that you want to partially analyze everything is immaterial. MS is part of the picture of a purist so it's part of THIS discussion. The other thread is there because YOU started it in an attempt to get stats in this thread and muck up the Elite conversation in the other. As many players have confirmed, my statements about the overpowering nature of MS in that game are true (despite your not believing them). BG being on vacation may have some role in that thread still being open but I certainly wouldn't call the cows ignoring a thread evidence that they don't want MS discussed with purists skills. Horrible misinterpretation.



Quit allocating the skill points in a way that MAKES NO SENSE for the general leveling player. And if durability at need for repair is about equal between classes then yes it is roughly equal. It is very clear to us that what you really want is a WIN button for Elites, a CAN'T DIE button for leveling and all the stats that other classes, that don't have those buttons, have.

1. You asked for attunement which affects all stats to be doubled in effectiveness to 0.3%. Not just attack. Case proved,
2. Prove it - you can get 1600 damage. I have 1394 with my setup - switching to damage from attack reaches 1500 + focus. Not very different if you ask me.
3. No, you can't pay credits, you just hit 7 creatures. Wow, big penalty when you're doing it anyway! Come on, be reasonable here.
4. As I have stated. 150 HP does NOT equal 1 Mental Strength - and definitely not THREE which you get each time you cast.
5. A TINY bit of bonus? Marksman, Weapon Spec and Focus all need ammo weapons. Ordance and Armour Proficiency needs Battlesuit items. Sure, tiny if I want to use the Altus Mace or something similar, I only use the benefits of FIVE class skills. That's tiny right?
6. My point was only made with respect to my attack points. I could put them in damage and level a little bit better. The relation to purists was simply that if you AS PURISTS put some points in attack you would lose a bit of efficiency too. That's self evident and I think you misunderstood my point.

1. So you don't know what part is about leveling and what part is about HK hunting?
2. Why are you asking the a question that have been answered by half of the posts here? (this is just one viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6369&start=114)
3. Have you ever hit 7 creatures with 10HP? Just fyi, miss rate in SS2 is about 6-8%, so purists die every ~15 naked hit if they don't have def. And yes, paying with cr is the advantage, believe me.
4. As I have stated, 150 HP is not totally equal, but comparable to MS, with the tradeable health pack out there and the fact that most soldiers and cyborgs have their total armor+hp less than 150.
5. When you don't use soldier weapon, you don't lose ALL your bonus. In fact, you can still manage to get Ordnance (requires battlesuit items) & Focused (requires ammo base weapon), your MAIN class skills. If you have a look back to my discussion, I only include soldier/cyborg main class skills to compare. So spare me on those other class skills that I haven't include. Anyways, did I mention that you can get your first 100 skill bar without dieing or 2 hits? Purists die with 10HP!!!
6. About the trade off, that's why I have keep calculate the total of atk & dmg to compare, and soldiers/cyborgs always keep well ahead of purists. And (as mentioned somtimes before) purists have all dmg setup can get down to about the same durability as a soldier who have atk for some different game. Why don't you see the problem there?